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Fox news alert 05 NOV 09
Mass shooting on the Fort Hood Base near Kileen, TX. 7 are dead at the Soldier Readiness Center and the shooter is in custody...breaking |
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According to officials, the incident was a dual attack. One of the shootings happened at a graduation ceremony taking place at the base when the shooting happened, Green said. “It would be an environment that would be very susceptible to casualties or injuries,” Green said. A second attack happened at a theater on the sprawling base, according to the Associated Press. Army personnel say they are not certain whether the shooting victims are civilians or military personnel. The conditions of the wounded were not known. “We’re praying that those who are injured … are not seriously injured.” The Fort Hood public affairs spokesman said the Army is setting up a special operations center to handle the response. The official base Web site has posted a message that it is on lock down and in an emergency situation. It also urged people to stay indoors. Nine schools on the base — seven elementary and two middle — are included in the lock down. 524 posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:23:53 PM by MestaMachine |
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572305,00.html “At Least 7 Dead, 20 Wounded in Shootings at Ft. Hood in Texas”
Thursday, November 05, 2009 SNIPPET: “Lt. Col. Nathan Banks said two shooters were apparently involved. There is no word yet on who they were, nor on the identities of the dead. The second incident took place at a theater on Ft. Hood, according to Banks”
SNIPPET: “The men were reportedly dressed in Army fatigues, but military officials couldn’t confirm that they were Army personnel. Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison said the shooting was a terrible tragedy for all of the military families affected. She said the post is a processing center where soldiers are processed before going to Iraq or Afghanistan.” |
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Official news from Army via ABCNews: 1 shooter .. at Readiness Center and theater. Can’t confirm the casualties. 1 shooter apprehended in fatigues 7 dead . . at least 12 wounded, possibly 20 2:30pm eastern time ... at main part of the post ATF, Homeland Security, Killeen Police, FBI, Army ..
all on site along Tank Destroyer Blvd. Unit commanders have been instructed to account for
all their personnel. 546 posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:25:29 PM by STARWISE |
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CNN 9 dead, 30+ wounded |
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REPORT: DEATH TOLL IN FORT HOOD SHOOTINGS RISES TO AT LEAST 9. |
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Ft. Hood’s web site appears down. ‘Service unavailable.’ 40-year old male.
Maybe 30 casualties
3rd shooter?
(Per caller from Fox) |
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MSNBC Live Coverage. |
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MSNBC: 2 in custody, but they're not sure it's over. Press conference upcoming.
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General on post, via Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison: Confirmed 30+ wounded.
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New unconfirmed reports of new shots are being fired at a housing unit on base.
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Fox now reporting nine dead and 27 injured. |
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FOXNews is reporting 9 dead and 27 wounded.
Apparently, Ft. Hood is the largest military post in the nation. Using an all-terrain vehicle, there are multiple ways to get on and off the post, per an expert interview. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:45 PM (#27365 - in reply to #27363) By: Savvy
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Confused early reports about who the shooters might be.
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Press conference on. |
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It sounds as if they are not sure what motivated the shooting. FOXNews just spoke of possible terrorist cells ... though the FBI initially issued reports the event was not terrorist related.
Is that the report in question? |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:51 PM (#27368 - in reply to #27366) By: Savvy
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CNN saying 12 dead, including a gunman. |
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Military spokesman: 12 dead, 31 injured. The shooters are soldiers, according to him.
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Ft. Hood continues on lockdown. All the casualties took place at the Soldier Readiness facility during the initial attack. All the casualties are military personnel. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:53 PM (#27372 - in reply to #27369) By: Savvy
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Military police responded and killed the shooter at the Readiness center. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:55 PM (#27373 - in reply to #27372) By: Savvy
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Per military spokesman, they are not yet ready to call 'all clear.' |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:56 PM (#27374 - in reply to #27373) By: Savvy
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Authorities have two (2) soldiers in custody for questioning. One shooter is dead. He was a civilian police officer contracted by the military to work on post, at Ft. Hood. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 1:59 PM (#27375 - in reply to #27374) By: Savvy
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Primary shooter (deceased) had two handguns. One civilian police officer is dead. |
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Our sources seem to differ. FOX, Shep Smith, said the now deceased shooter was a civilian police officer who worked at the post. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:05 PM (#27377 - in reply to #27376) By: Savvy
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Obama said it is horrifying military should come under fire at home, as compared to overseas.
The Ft. Hood community will be supported with the resources of the federal government. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:07 PM (#27378 - in reply to #27377) By: Savvy
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Now FOXNews says the deceased shooter was a soldier. It is still not known whether there were multiple shooters. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:08 PM (#27379 - in reply to #27378) By: Savvy
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Unconfirmed possible name for the dead shooter: Malik Hassan. |
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This incident brings to mind the question, what is our gov't. doing to assure our military is not infiltrated by individual members of terrorist cells bent on destroying our country? |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:14 PM (#27381 - in reply to #27379) By: Savvy
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FOXNews reports blood donors are needed. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:14 PM (#27382 - in reply to #27381) By: Savvy
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Clarification: The shooter was killed by local police as he was shooting at others. Also, there was a local police officer killed during the attack. Apparently, the shooter was a soldier, not a local police officer, as FOXNews reported near the top of the hour. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:16 PM (#27383 - in reply to #27382) By: Savvy
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Military Major Malik Hassan, a convert to Islam, originally from Virginia, is the Prime Suspect and now dead, killed by police officers.
http://twitter.com/ericrichards |
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Meanwhile Obama had a presser in which he joked around with staff for ten minutes, talked about Indians, and breezily mentioned the shootings like an unimportant afterthought.
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Suspect's name per ABC: Malik Nadal Hassan |
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Urgent Need for Blood DonationsDue to the recent events on Fort Hood, we are in URGENT need of ALL blood types. Please come to Scott & White Blood Donor Center and donate blood as soon as possible, we are located in Room 115 next the McLane Dining Room in the main hospital. We are open today until at least 7 p.m. and you can contact us at 254-724-4376 if you need any assistance on determining your eligibility to donate. Source: http://www.sw.org/web/patientsAndVisitors
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:28 PM (#27388 - in reply to #27387) By: Savvy
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Special News UpdateScott & White Memorial Hospital is receiving several gunshot victims from Fort Hood. No specifics are known regarding the incident resulting in the shootings. At this time the victims coming to Scott and White are suffering from wounds. We have nothing else at this time. All patients are adults. All Scott & White facilities remain open and Scott & White hospital operations are continuing. The Emergency Department however, is NOT accessible to the public at this time. All media queries should be sent to 254-724-4097. (Updated 4 p.m.) Source: http://www.sw.org/web/patientsAndVisitors
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:31 PM (#27390 - in reply to #27388) By: Savvy
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FOX reports the officer-shooter was upset b/c he was being deployed to Iraq. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:32 PM (#27391 - in reply to #27390) By: Savvy
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I'd take that with a truckload of salt.
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The two (2) in custody are members of the Army, as was the deceased shooter. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 2:42 PM (#27394 - in reply to #27393) By: Savvy
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It's now being reported this was not a stress-related, random shooting, but a deliberate, planned act of execution. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 3:07 PM (#27396 - in reply to #27394) By: Savvy
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With three shooters involved, and the name and religion of the dead murderer being what it was, that was a near certainty. |
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Rep Carter (TX) just said on FNC that the "two suspects in custody have been released - searching for another suspect." |
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Per Drudge: Major Malik Nadal Hasan
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Update 5:26 News Channel 25's Natasha Chen has learned the suspected shooter Maj. Malik Hasan had "Allah" keyed into his car last week. He reported it as a hate crime.....
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According to NBC News Major Malik Nadal Hasan was educated at Virginia Tech, graduated 1997.
Edited by Gregory 2009-11-05 4:13 PM
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| Posted 2009-11-05 4:02 PM (#27405 - in reply to #27402) By: Gregory
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CBS News investigative producer Len Tepper reports that Hasan, 39, is a licensed psychiatrist from Silver Spring, Md. |
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The shooter was a psychiatrist recently reassigned from Walter Reed. |
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Breitbart 11/5/09
Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July. The officials had access to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential. The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old. He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.
Read more at breitbart.com ... |
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The New York Times is now reporting that his name is, in fact, Nidal Malik Hasan. |
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Hasan's cousin, interviewed on Fox News, claims his cousin, Major Malik Nadal Hasan, the now dead shooter; "... has always been Muslim, he was born Muslim." He also twice said he wanted everyone to know; "he was a good American."
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| Posted 2009-11-05 4:39 PM (#27414 - in reply to #27407) By: Geronimo
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Special News UpdateScott & White Memorial Hospital has received 10 gunshot victims from Fort Hood. All patients are adults. No other victims are expected to arrive at Scott & White in Temple or at any of Scott & White locations. Scott & White Memorial Hospital in Temple is no longer open to visitors as we focus our attention upon the victims and their families. All media queries should be sent to 254-724-4097. Concerned family should call 254-724-3562. Hotel accommodations are in the vicinity of the Scott & white Memorial Hospital, including the Hilton Garden Inn. (Updated 6:30 p.m. CDT)
Urgent Need for Blood DonationsWe are no longer taking blood donations this evening, the Scott & White Blood Donor Center will open at 8 a.m. tomorrow. We are located in Room 115 next to the McLane Dining Room in the main hospital. Determine your eligibility to donate Source: http://www.sw.org/web/patientsAndVisitors
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| Posted 2009-11-05 4:42 PM (#27415 - in reply to #27413) By: Savvy
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Oh my CNN just reported the feds were watching this guy because of the language of internet postings he’d made. WHY was this perp not discharged? 1,970 posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:40:58 PM by prairiebreeze |
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Nidal Malik Hasan
Posted: Nov 05, 2009 6:07 PM CST Updated: Nov 05, 2009 7:26 PM CST Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July. The officials had access to Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential. Federal law enforcement officials say the Hasan came to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats. The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old. He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship. |
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ABCNews reports the gunman was never deployed overseas, that he was promoted just last May to the rank of Major, his parents being from Jordan, and he, himself, born in the United States. It's interesting many news agencies are discussing the stress of multiple tours of duty in the context of this story in light of information coming forward that the alleged perpetrator of one of the most violent acts of violence on a U.S. military post had never deployed overseas -- he just worked at Walter Reed for the last six (6) years, prior to being transfered to Ft. Hood, in July, 2009. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 5:43 PM (#27421 - in reply to #27415) By: Savvy
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More from this link at PJM: Update: “AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspect:” Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was killed during the shooting incident that left least 11 others dead and 31 wounded. The officials say they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case. One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades. Meanwhile, Allahpundit at Hot Air links to another video of Shepard Smith on Fox News: Update: The two suspects detained earlier were released, but according to Rep. John Carter, another one has just hauled in. Update: Here’s another Shep interview that people are buzzing out, this one with Hasan’s cousin. The cousin says Hasan decided after 9/11 that he didn’t want to deploy overseas, that he heard horrific stories from returning soldiers, and that he was harassed by other soldiers. |
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Polce have surrounded suspects house on 38th street. |
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 Dr. Nidal Malik Hasan MD Psychiatry 2 Wramc Department 6900 Georgia Avenue, NW Washington , DC - 20307 301-625-9797 Name: Nidal M Hasan Birth Date: Sep 1970 Address: 666 Ramada Rd, Vinton, Virginia 24179-0501 (1993 ) Nidal Malik Hasan, MD LICENSE # 0101238630 Issue Date: 7/12/2005 Expiration Date: 9/30/2010 Status: Current Active Darnall Army Medical Center 36000 Darnall Loop Ft. Hood, TX 76544 Phone: 301-547-1599 Grad School: Uniformed Services University Of The Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School Of Medicine - Bethesda MD Year Completed: 2003 Psychiatry WRAMC Washington, DC USA Year Residency Completed: 2007 Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry USUHS/WRAMC Bethesda, MD USA Year Fellowship Completed: 2009 Posted: Nov 05, 2009 6:07 PM CST Updated: Nov 05, 2009 7:26 PM CST Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July. The officials had access to Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential. Federal law enforcement officials say the Hasan came to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats. The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old. He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.
Parents (thanks to maggief): OBIT Roanoke Times, The (VA ) - Saturday, April 18, 1998 HASAN , Malik Awadallah, 52, passed away Thursday, April 16, 1998, at his home in Vinton. He was born in Palestine on August 7, 1946, and emigrated to the United States at age 16, spending most of his life in Virginia. He moved to Roanoke in 1985 and began a successful business career. He is best remembered for his cheerfulness, honesty and kindness toward everyone. He owned the infamous Capitol Restaurant on the market for many years. Most recently, he established the Mount Olive Grill and Bar and was renovating the Community Grocery on Elm Avenue. He is survived by his wife, Hanan; three sons, Nidal , Anas and Eyad; a sister; four brothers; 33 nieces and nephews; 37 great-nieces and great-nephews, and scores of extended family. He will be deeply missed by all who knew him. Funeral services will be held at 10:30 a.m. Sunday, April 19, at Everly Funeral Home in Fairfax. Interment will follow in National Memorial Park in Falls Church. Friends may call the funeral home at (703 ) 385-1110. OBIT - HASAN , HANAN ISMAIL, (NORA ) Roanoke Times, The (VA ) - Thursday, May 31, 2001 HASAN , Hanan Ismail, (Nora ), 49, passed away Wednesday, May 30, 2001, surrounded by her loved ones. She was born in Palestine January 15, 1952 and came to the United States as a young girl. She moved to Roanoke in 1986 after her husband, the late Malik Hasan , came here the year before to begin what would be a successful business venture for the entire family. Nora became infamous in Roanoke for her leadership in running the Capitol Restaurant, formerly located on the Market. She was known for her ability to keep sometimes rowdy customers out of trouble and always had a warm meal for someone who otherwise would not have anything to eat that evening. She was also a major figure at the Community Grocery Store and in the establishment of the Mount Olive Grill and Bar. She was preceded in death by her husband three years ago. She is survived by her three sons, Nidal , Anas, and Eyad; her parents; six sisters; two brothers; 29 nieces and nephews; 2 great-nieces; and scores of extended family. She will be greatly missed by all those who knew her. Funeral services and prayers will be held May 31 at Dar Al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church at 1 p.m. Interment will follow in National Memorial Park. Please send condolences to the Hasan Family c / o Community Grocery, 124 Elm Avenue, SW, Roanoke, Va. 24016.
another news conference coming soon... 21 posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:49:08 PM by Brown Deer |
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Fox News: He's not dead [Fort Hood shooter!]
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:16:02 PM by markomalley He was shot multiple times but not killed. Being treated! |
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It is reported the shooter is in stable condition.
What a turn of events, after hearing throughout the day that the shooter had died in the initial event. |
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| Posted 2009-11-05 7:18 PM (#27429 - in reply to #27427) By: Savvy
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What I am hearing; 5 hours into this latest tragedy - where the ARROGANT speculative media was kept IN THE DARK by the military and investigators that the shooter actually is ALIVE; is a consistent attempt to heighten "alarm" that both Muslims and non-Muslims who are critical of America's foreign policy in regards to both wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, are perhaps "prone" to violent outbursts such as this.
They smell blood in the water once again!
Here comes the call for gun control for political dissent...never mind the psychological makeup of individuals that simply have no conscience when it comes to deciding to risk a suicide by choosing to go out killing other innocent human beings by spraying random bullets in public, for no good reason; but also, the media will pay no mind to the psychological makeup of neo-cons, RINO's and fear-mongers of Health Care Reform - calling Tea Party goers kooks and whack jobs for not standing with "them" as they also preach the band-aid on cancer that is fiscal conservatism - while fighting wars against a still undefined and extremely elusive enemy!
This fear-mongering, just like the accusation that we are racists for opposing Obama's "agenda", is what I will call PRE-traumatic stress disorder!
If real Constitutional conservative candidates took over Congress, the White House, and the courts - their FREE-RIDE's would be OVER - and that is the TRAUMA they are going to suffer if they keep trampling under foot our liberties.
The shooter is a murderer...and deserves swift execution...'nuff said!
Edited by jeleniewski 2009-11-05 7:21 PM
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| Posted 2009-11-05 7:20 PM (#27430 - in reply to #27427) By: jeleniewski
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The reporting certainly has been unusual, today. The reporting seems bent on reporting the events as a result of personal vendetta, and stress over upcoming deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan.
Even if Hasan turns out to be someone without ties to terrorist organizations, if his alleged actions were taken in sympathy with terrorists, that is, to eliminate soldiers soon to deploy overseas, then is that not a terrorist act on American soil, post 9/11?
Those regulating information in this case don't seem to want to go there.
Regardless, it's certainly odd confirmation of the shooter's name was withheld for several hours, and even more odd that news of his survival was withheld until evening.
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| Posted 2009-11-05 7:37 PM (#27432 - in reply to #27430) By: Savvy
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Reports this morning say the alleged Muslim shooter shouted "God is Great" while standing on a table, prior to the shooting spree that killed 13, and wounded an addition 28 people on Ft. Hood's military post, yesterday.
The alleged shooter remains hospitalized, reportedly unable to speak due to injuries or treatment. *Note: Other reports same the assailant shouted: 'Allahu Akbar!' which is Arabic for 'Allah is Great!' This poster acknowledges Allah is not the God of the Bible.
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| Posted 2009-11-06 7:18 AM (#27469 - in reply to #27432) By: Savvy
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I desire he recovers enough to communicate before being tried, convicted and executed. I would like to know what he says motivated him to do such a dastardly deed. |
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| Posted 2009-11-06 7:22 AM (#27471 - in reply to #27469) By: Gregory
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I pray he comes to faith in Christ, before the state imposes its penalty. |
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| Posted 2009-11-06 7:34 AM (#27472 - in reply to #27471) By: Savvy
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Special News UpdateGun shot victims from Fort Hood are in stable condition today at Scott & White Healthcare. 10 people were transported to Scott & White Memorial Hospital in Temple yesterday after a shooting incident at the base. Until further notice, Scott & White Memorial Hospital in Temple is closed to visitors as we focus our attention on the victims and their families and to ensure the safety of our patients and staff. Concerned family should call 866-836-2751, 254-288-7570. All media requests should be directed to 254-724-4097.
Update ==> Blood DonationsBlood donations are being accepted at Scott & White Blood Center until 6 p.m. today and all blood types are needed at this time. No appointment is necessary. Currently the wait is approximately 30-45 minutes. Remember to bring a photo ID when donating and please make sure you have eaten a good meal prior to donation. Bryan/College Station residents: Our blood team will be in College Station all next week to accept donations. College Station donors are encouraged to donate then as the victims will continue to need blood possibly for weeks to come. (Updated 11/06/09 - 9:55 a.m. CDT) Source: http://www.sw.org/web/patientsAndVisitors
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| Posted 2009-11-06 8:20 AM (#27482 - in reply to #27472) By: Savvy
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Reports this morning say the alleged Muslim shooter shouted "God is Great" while standing on a table, prior to the shooting spree that killed 13, and wounded an addition 28 people on Ft. Hood's military post, yesterday. Is that how the media is reporting it? He did NOT say God is great. He shouted in the name of the Muslim god Allah. http://www.aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9811
Edited by Philomena 2009-11-06 8:51 AM
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| Posted 2009-11-06 8:49 AM (#27487 - in reply to #27469) By: Philomena
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News reports state the alleged shooter said, "God is great!" before beginning his shooting spree. Apparently, they have translated, 'Allahu Akbar!' implying Allah is God.
As we know, the God of the Bible is not Allah, the god of Islam.
As Alan Keyes has pointed out on the conference calls, it is clear God and Allah are not the same as the character of God and Allah are drastically different.
I don't know much about Islam, but my understanding is that Allah is a "tricky" supposed deity -- a god that tries to trick adherents out of rewards -- a slippery, deceiving entity ... as described by the Koran.
The God of the Bible sacrificed Himself to give freely the Gift of Life to all who will accept Him. He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and the knowledge of the Truth. Allah is a deceiver. God is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Since the very nature of God and the alleged deity, Allah, vary so dramatically, it's not possible that these are two names for the same being.
God is not Allah. |
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| Posted 2009-11-06 9:20 AM (#27494 - in reply to #27487) By: Savvy
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Very well said, Savvy! |
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| Posted 2009-11-06 9:37 AM (#27499 - in reply to #27494) By: Philomena
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Savvy wrote:
I pray he comes to faith in Christ, before the state imposes its penalty.
I have already prayed that too, for that would be a true victory in the real war being waged on battlefield earth.
I'm not sure this [alleged] commander in chief has it in him to sign off on a court martial and execution order.
Tough spot for a Muslim/Christian/Marxist to be in, eh Barack? Americans were nervous for centuries about the possible divided loyalties of a potential Catholic president. Proof - Al Smith and John F. Kennedy.
What would the same people say now? I think they'd be speechless.
What is the shooter's place in Allah's heaven if caught, tried, convicted, and executed by infidels? Does that signal abandonment by Allah? Does that signal a defeat for Allah, that one of his warriors falls under the justice of a Judeo-Christian system?
Maybe this guy will be released with the next batch of Gitmo "victims," so he can go to Israel and die in jihad?
I think that is what he wanted in the first place. One doesn't start blazing away on an army base if one is afraid of combat. How better to guarantee lead flying in one's own direction? I mean come on! He may be the most disappointed among us to find that he has survived the exchange of ordinance.
I predict: "Not guilty by reason of temporary insanity," followed by assignment to serve as a shrink for terrorist detainees in whatever federal prison accepts Gitmo inmates. This would surely convince the U.N. that America is compassionate and unbiased when dealing with those who wish to kill or enslave us all. What value that would have, I am still sorting out. |
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| Posted 2009-11-06 1:19 PM (#27523 - in reply to #27472) By: Roundhead
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